I've been offered a hack - should I buy it?

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Thread: I've been offered a hack - should I buy it?

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default I've been offered a hack - should I buy it?

    Hi folks

    As per my newbie intro post, I'm a Brit living in Crete. Being a bit of a petrolhead I am looking for something to work on while we are in lockdown. There are lots of F650s on the island although the price of used bikes are quite high here. Buying is always fun, as things described as "excellent" are not quite as excellent as in the UK-sense.

    I have been offered a local F650, as follows: 2000 model year; 95k KM (yep, 95k); the seller says it has two faults: 1. Various electrical problems when you move the bars and 2. unsavoury noises from the engine when it is hot and/or after some kilometres (how many, I'm not sure). It also has the added benefit of being 70s Volvo orange. It has new tyres and the seller says he is the only owner, having clocked up all of those KMs, having ridden all over Greece and to Turkey and back.

    In the past I stripped and rebuilt a 1996 Aprilia Pegaso 650, including electrics, carbs, and engine (new valves, piston, cylinder etc) so know that close cousin quite well. That said, getting the exhaust headers off was a pig of a job and it still backfired on the over-run, even after changing the rubber intake manifolds.

    Anyway, the guy wants €500 for it, which I think is a bit steep considering the age, mileage and unknown/possibly "economical with the truth" faults. I haven't heard it running, either.

    To my mind, half that would be worth a punt. What do you think?

    All the best

    John

  2. #2
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    GS/Gd Dakar 2003
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    Hi John,
    welcome to the forum, you sound experienced, here's my take on this:

    service history with it?
    Is it carb model or *single spark injection ?
    Does it looked bodged by 'One owner from new', Missing/Rounded fixings, broken body work ?
    *electrical issue moving handlebars general affect 2000-2004 single sparks, is probably due to chaffed wiring round steering head, subject of BMW recall/ MOD , documented here in FAQ's . Rectified on 2004+ rwin Sparks
    Unsavoury engine noises when hot could be down to excessive valve clearances, does it sound from top end?
    down on power when hot? Or maybe worn cam chain / adjuster, or could be more serious

    assess when see/ hear it running & how truthful you feel owner is to few questions, evidence they are only owner from new? Evidence of Mileage, if no SH? look right for condition, could it be clocked or speedo replaced? has he done valve clearances or SH indicate been done, oil changes Neglected? , oil dirty, thin, worn? Filter changed with oil, if so when? What are drive chain/ sprockets like ? At 95KM/60,000 miles number of parts will be coming up for attention.
    In UK in v good nick, full SH, good accessories etc one owner probably looking at £1,500 -2000 until recent events, track private & dealer F650's on eBay.
    This is v subjective, my opinion probably worth a punt at €250, if just top end refurb , wiring issue, maybe few other items , decent bike for region of up to €1,000 total outlay.
    These engines can go for 150-200k kmtrs or more if valves/ cam chain & oil/ filter etc serviced
    believe the Aprilla Pegaso is bit more highly tuned and some internals , bearings (?) different to BMW engines, which were tweaked with reliability in mind rather than out right power
    Last edited by kuyajonathan; 03-05-2020 at 11:38 AM. Reason: mileage to be queried
    2003 GS Dakar
    BMW Panniers, top box, tank bag
    + loads TT stuff that came with it!

  3. #3
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    Apr 2019
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    I spend most of my spare time restoring old bikes but it all depends on what you would hope to get out of the project. In my case this normally involves restoring back to factory condition but, generally, the value of the bike is worth more after restoration than it cost me.

    It sounds as though a complete engine overhaul might be required in this case which would be a lot of work and might not be that cheap depending on what needs to be replaced. The problem is that once you start looking inside the engine you never know what you might find, especially with a high mileage engine.

    The thing you have to be particularly careful with in regard to a more modern fuel injected bike (which I assume yours is), is problems with the electrics and more specifically the electronics. Problems with the wiring harness are easily sorted but if the engine does not run properly or cuts out unexpectedly and you have electronic faults then these could be hard to sort out and may also be very expensive to fix.

    Even with my background in restoring bikes, I'm not sure I would be tempted to try to restore this particular high mileage F650.
    2006 F650GS in Black
    9,300 Miles

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuyajonathan View Post
    Hi John,
    1. service history with it?
    2. Is it carb model or *single spark injection ?
    3. Does it looked bodged by 'One owner from new', Missing/Rounded fixings, broken body work ?
    4. *electrical issue moving handlebars general affect 2000-2004 single sparks, is probably due to chaffed wiring round steering head, subject of BMW recall/ MOD , documented here in FAQ's . Rectified on 2004+ rwin Sparks
    5. Unsavoury engine noises when hot could be down to excessive valve clearances, does it sound from top end?
    down on power when hot? Or maybe worn cam chain / adjuster, or could be more serious
    6. assess when see/ hear it running & how truthful you feel owner is to few questions, evidence they are only owner from new? Evidence of Mileage, if no SH? look right for condition, could it be clocked or speedo replaced? has he done valve clearances or SH indicate been done, oil changes Neglected? , oil dirty, thin, worn? Filter changed with oil, if so when? What are drive chain/ sprockets like ? At 95KM/60,000 miles number of parts will be coming up for attention.
    In UK in v good nick, full SH, good accessories etc one owner probably looking at £1,500 -2000 until recent events, track private & dealer F650's on eBay.
    7. This is v subjective, my opinion probably worth a punt at €250, if just top end refurb , wiring issue, maybe few other items , decent bike for region of up to €1,000 total outlay.
    8. These engines can go for 150-200k kmtrs or more if valves/ cam chain & oil/ filter etc serviced
    believe the Aprilla Pegaso is bit more highly tuned and some internals , bearings (?) different to BMW engines, which were tweaked with reliability in mind rather than out right power:
    Hi Jonathan and thanks so much for the info. Lots for me to consider! In answer to your questions/comments:

    1. Not sure about S/H, I will check.
    2. It is a twin carb model (2 x Mikunis, I think)
    3. ha! Most of the used bikes here look a bit bodged! the locals are pretty handy in keeping things going, and although it goes against my perfectionist UK mindset, I have learned to accept that cable ties, gaffer tape and odd sized fixings are fairly standard here. Bikes described as in excellent condition usually refer to the mechanicals, as I have learned to my cost...!
    4. Electrical gremlins/steering. That's good to hear and doesn't phase me. I'm pretty good with a circuit diagram, multi-meter and a soldering iron.
    5. Yep, this is the "biggie". Until I hear it and/or ride it, I just don't know. I am not averse to taking the engine out, but that has to be offset by it being a bargain. Parts prices begin to rack up quickly, not to mention the labour time, and of course don't at this stage take into account unseen difficulties in removing the engine (like, for example, those seized exhaust headers).
    6. I'll double check the chain and sprockets etc. Next step is to go back and have a proper look/hear it running/try a test ride.
    7. I agree. There are just too many risks attached, so something has to give. As it stands it is a 20 year old 10ok bike with unknown engine faults. Unless I spot that the "engine problem" is something really small, then I don't think it is worth more that €250 to me. I'd like it as a project, but not at any price. Bikes here do tend to be more expensive than in the UK, so an on-the-road F650 from, say, '06 with 60-70k on the clock will sell for around €1500.
    8. Back to looking for evidence of servicing, then!

    I'll let you know what happens, but presently I think I will steer clear unless it turns out to be a bargain.

    Thanks again and all the best

    John

  6. #5
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    Hi AWJ and thanks for the info/reply, much appreciated.

    At the moment I am just looking for something with which to scratch my mechanical itch, while I am "stuck" on Crete (there are worse places to be marooned, admitedly!). Actually, my plan is to find something to fix up and put back on the road, thus meaning I can take my TT600RE off the road and then restore that while running around on the hack. When the TTR is finished, I'd sell the hack - in this case maybe an F650.

    I agree with your assessment of this bike. Without evidence to the contrary I'd have to reckon on engine out and some nasty faults lurking within. I'm not sure I'm up for that, as despite having stripped and rebuilt a Pegaso engine previously (replaced the valves, piston and cylinder to name just a few bits) I just don't have the tools and resources here. And as you say, the cost could easily rack up to uneconomic levels.

    I'll keep you posted!

    thanks again

    John


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